The Project Itself
Below is the text documentation of the various emails and
correspondences I (“host”)
and Andrew (my “surrogate”)
are engaging in in an attempt to realize some sort of surrogate
relationship: basically to see if he can go to school for
me and if I can still get something out of it.
First Host Request 1/28/05
Hey Andrew,
Great meeting up the other day, I'm actually excited and
can't quite believe this all might come together.
So I'm going to start
forwarding emails like this from class, though I don't think they'll
be many. As you can see Reiner Leist like to schedule outside stuff,
and again if it's something you can't make I should be able to
fill it (but you should try to go).
Also,
I think the best way to rectify the studio building is to just
get you a Hunter ID card with my name and your picture. I'm sure
we can do this easily if I just give you my social and some other
non-photo documents/credit cards etc. Maybe we can try this sometime
Monday during the day back at 68th st. Let me know if this works
for you, we might also be able to try it Thursday before your Philosophy
class.
Don't forget to send me a pic, brief bio,
and why you singed up.
Take
care,
Surrogate Email 2/03/05
(this is Andrew's bio and “reasons
for signing up” email
I asked him to write for the website)
I'm writing in response to the Surrogate Graduate Project/ application.
I meet the qualifications in that I received my BFA studying art
from the University of Cincinnati (DAAP), but mainly because of financial
constraints, I haven't been able to even think about going to grad
school. I'm more interested in continuing my art education than receiving
a formal degree.
I have a modest collection of paintings online
at www.artilectual.com (“Andrew
Wingert”). I'm not sure what
sort of artist you're looking for, but I think that my sincerity,
(what I believe to be an important attribute of any art/ artist)
is evident when you see the artwork. The paintings address universality,
divisibility, morphology, extropy-evolutionary themes from a mainly
formalist perspective. I was well respected as an undergrad. student
and I think the same would apply at Hunter.
Initially, I was attracted to the project
for the opportunity to have a studio space. As I read more about
your intentions, I was a little unclear about how it would actually
work. I have a lot of questions- mainly since the project involves
identity and interchangeable ones at that, I wonder what sort of legal
problems could arise- basically who would be held responsible if anything
should happen. I'm definitely interested enough to hear the details
of the project. I look forward to hearing from you.
Andrew Wingert
Host Reply 2/03/05
Andrew and I had met in person a second time at this point
and were both excited about the possibility of trying to pull this
thing off, I as lo agreed that I would sign any contract he had in
mind so he didn't have to worry about getting arrested if the heat
came down on this somehow. I think he's a good candidate in that
he is qualified for an MFA program but can't really afford it right
now, and I like his art (basically most applicants I had that I told
no to were because their art was hard to take, and I didn't want
to be represented by what I thought was just bad art. This went against
my initial belief that I would take just about anyone).
In preparation for the switch, I went to the first class of both
classes to softly introduce the project. I got Andrew the Philosophy
book he needed (I have one as well and will follow along) and today
I'm going to try to get him an ID with his photo and my name so he
can get into the Studio Building easier. We'll see.
Host Update 02/04/05
So we chickened out about getting the fake ID. We figured just
giving him my ID would get him into the studio building with no
real issues. Andrew has his first class today, and we met beforehand
so I could give him my studio key, cards that told people about
the project and this site, slides of my work to present in the
photo class on Monday, and the photo class syllabus. I'm excited
to see if it all works out, and hope he doesn't just get thrown
out right away.
Surrogate First Philosophy Class Report 02/04/05
I was a little nervous at the start of class- Prof.Ross read off
the names of everybody in the class- I just sort of raised my hand
when Bryan Wizemann was called. At the break, I decided to explain
myself a little bit to the professor. I told him that I was a surrogate
and gave him the card, he said that he wanted to discuss it further
during his office hours. He seemed really interested, maybe a bit
uneasy about our arrangement in regards to the final paper. He
was firm in saying that the final paper had to deal with the readings
and subjects discussed in the course- as long as we do that- it'll
work out fine. I noticed that once I told him that I was a surrogate
student, he paid a bit more attention to my presence in the class.
A couple of girls you told
about the project approached me, asking if I was the new
Bryan Wizemann- they were into it- like “why
didn't I think of that?” - i gave
them the cards too.
The class/material itself was pretty heavy. The professor
is very good, I think the class requires some serious attention
and dedication- I'll probably have to read each text a few
times before the next class. So, since we're going to have
to write the paper on the material from the book, I guess
I should tell you about what we talked about today. I could
be wrong about everything, but here's what I got out of it:
We started
off reviewing the Tolstoy essay from “What
is Art”- the
main discussion with his theory was the problem of instrumentalism
and therefore autonomy. He is saying that the art object
is a means (or an
instrument) of conveying something from creator to the viewer-
expressing a certain psychological state or idea. Is this even
necessary in art? This leads to the idea that if something besides
art could convey these psych. states or ideas from one to another-
then that would question the need or purpose for art. What are
the intentions for the art?
Then we talked about the Collingwood article from “The
Principles of Art” He attempts
to differentiate art between craft- crucial to the definition
of art is its difference between craft- what art is not.
He says that art expresses emotion (something) in a completely
unique way which has no counterpart elsewhere. This is in
contrast to Tolstoy's view that whatever is conveyed by means
of art could be conveyed by other means as well- this already
takes care of Tolstoy's problem of instrumentalism.
His main premise was that the art is the
mental object existing in the artists mind and that the physical
art object is a means by which we can reach that mental object
(residue or trace of the mental activity). Then there's the question
of whether or not the mental object is entirely created and then
the physical art object follows or both the physical and mental
object evolve together. The difference between the artist and
the non-artist is that the artist chooses to construct the physical
object.
Art vs Craft-
he says that they demand exclusive contrasts in that if one
as a certain attribute, then the other must not have that
attribute. Problems were that he says craft is a means to
a preset end, which can also be obviously true about certain
art. He says that technique is related to craft- that you
couldn't say that a painting or whatever is great because
of the technique and skill displayed- what else is left?
An intrinsic “artiness” about
the object? Discount mechanisms of arousal as well. Translating
the mental object to the physical- Why should you have difficulty
producing what is already a fully formed mental object? He
related this process to a coloring book where each section
is labeled with a certain number, or color where you simply
fill it to get the final picture.
So,
1. Work of art as
a mental object.
2. Expression- highly individuated character/value
3. Art/ Craft distinction: preset end vs. non-preset end concern
for technique for arousal or not
Finally, I thought the most interesting part is the idea that if a certain
attribute of the physical art object is particularly beautiful/ unique/
enhancing. etc. and you cannot imagine it without that attribute (like
a certain medium for example) then it does something that the mental object
does not. I think that this is the hole in collingwood's argument. His
example was Michelangelo's David, the fact that its in marble is certainly
a quality which enhances the object, but being that its in marble can't
be a part of the mental object. This is why conceptual/ found/ready-maid
art works well with Collingwood's argument because they directly guide
you to the mental object-Duchamp's snow-shovel could easily be replaced
by a different snow shovel and the art object/ idea would not change- it
still leads to the same mental object. If Michelangelo's David was made
in plaster- it would be completely different.
Whew- at least
that's what I got out of it. We're supposed to read an essay by Beardsley
for the next class. I'm going to meet with the professor before the next
class. Talk to you soon.
Andrew Wingert
Host Reply 2/04/05
This is wonderful Andrew, thank you.
Surrogate First Photo Class Report 02/07/05 The photo
class was much more of an experience- I didn't know that
the project proposal was due and that it was the topic
of discussion for the class. I explained your work and
my work very briefly, but mainly talked about our project.
Prof. Leist mentioned that the surrogate student had been
done before-so I think he's waiting to see if we can take
it a different direction.
The class was definitely interested- I acted as a living
slide- an example of your work. I said that they could
call me Andrew or Bryan- I never lied. Thankfully, Leist
is not messing around, so I'm going to make sure that my
(our) project reflects the overall project at hand. I'm
not sure right now what the best approach is- thinking
about your art and mine and how I (we) could maximize this
experience.
I had until midnight to e-mail the proposal, but it didn't
get there until about 12:30, so I hope that's not going
to end anything- he wasn't very forgiving though- nor should
he be. There is a fee for the class that we'll have to
figure out. Do you have any questions for me? Ideas for
a photo project?
The entire time I was in that class, I could not picture
you being there. It just didn't make any sense to me, what
would have happened if you were there instead of me? Talk
to you soon.
Andrew- Surrogate
Host Reply 2/08/05
Hey Andrew, I emailed the prof to see
what the other project was so I can maybe learn from it.
This sucks because I thought I did a search online to see
if anything like that was out there, and came up with nothing.
I also told him that the Surrogate thing WAS my proposal,
as far as yours goes I thought they would co-exist somehow.
Shit.
Take care,
Host email to Professor Leist 2/08/05
Dear Professor Leist,
Andrew had mentioned that you knew of another project very
similar to the one I am proposing for this class. I tried
to research similar artwork, but couldn't find anything
online. Could you point me in the right direction?
As for the photo project proposal, the surrogate graduate
was my proposal, the information contained within the website
and its ongoing documentation. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
It will eventually involve photography.
Take care,
Surrogate Photo Class Proposal 02/07/05
Professor Leist,
This semester, I plan to be using photography as an instrument
to highlight the surrogate graduate project between myself
and Bryan Wizemann. I will examine ideas of identity, interpersonal
exchange, ownership, authorship, relationships, and comfort
ability- recording my experiences of the project as they
happen- keeping in mind what I have to offer as a surrogate
student and what Bryan Wizemann has to offer as an artist
and a student at Hunter. There are a lot of different ways
that this could go, and since this experience is unique
to Bryan and me; I would like for the photo project to
reflect that, sincerely. I'll think about Bryan's artwork
and how it relates to my own; as well as how to truly emphasize
our roles in this particular type of collaboration. This
is extremely new to me, so I'm excited to see what happens.
Thanks. Bryan Wizemann- Andrew Wingert
Professor Reiner Leist's Response to Host email 02/09/05
I was referring to Maurizio Cattelan, an Italian artist
who has frequently used a surrogate for himself in his
public appearances. One that I experienced was a lecture
at the New School (part of the lecture series organized
by the public art fund), but the person he hired for that
has repeatedly given interviews etc. on his behalf. http://www.eyestorm.com/artist/Maurizio_Cattelan.aspx
Your film is good. Reiner Leist
Host Response to Professor Leist 2/09/05
Oh great, I know
Maurizio's work. I was actually softly going to be part
of Apex Art's upcoming lecture series this Saturday that's
being put together by Harrell Fletcher that's part of ”Maurizio
Couldn't Be Here”, but had to bow out.
Thanks for the feedback on the film, it's going to be
a hard sell.
Here is the info on that: http://www.apexart.org/exhibitions/maurizio.htm
5 Saturdays of Performance-related Events
Each Saturday from Feb 12 to Mar 12, apexart will feature
a performance-related activity: an all day line-up of special
guest speakers, premieres of TV ads of contemporary artists,
bands collaborating with video artists, a traditional Afghan-food
tasting performance, and other surprises. Following each
Saturday event the gallery will be open Tuesday to Friday
11-6 with video documentation of the event or the featured
work on view.
Surrogate Class Report 02/14/05
This last philosophy class
made we wonder if I would have been accepted to Hunter
had I applied. The class is pretty into it- probably because
its mostly philosophy majors. They were asking artists
in the class to explain the basics of conceptual art--must
be interesting to read art theories and not know something
as fundamental as Duchamp.
We talked about the Beardsley essay, “The Intentional
Fallacy”-My notes this time around weren't as detailed-
mostly because we spent the majority of the time pointing
out exceptions and holes in his theory. I'm looking at
my notes right now trying to make any sort of sense out
of it, again- I could be way off on this:
The intentional fallacy misdirects intention of criticism
to the wrong object- if an exact replica of an artwork
was created, it would still be the same artwork; therefore,
intention must be irrelevant. Intentions are the cause
of the artwork- and the works have meaning aside from their
intentions. platitudinous works of art? wonder why I wrote
that down. Suppose a group of monkeys randomly happen to
produce a Shakespeare play- the properties of the art would
remain the same. Art bears properties aside from the causal
properties by which it was formed - ”mid air position”.
We touched on objective and constructed properties- constructed
properties exist because of constructed understandings
previously created (money, marriage, etc.) Properties like
tragic and funny are also constructed properties (accomplishment
properties)- -- Art is constructed therefore it gives way
to constructed properties- they only come about through
intentionally constructed means based on historic understanding.
I'd be happy if that made any sense at all.
The photo class gets better and better. I think I'm starting
to notice a little bit of resentment from a few of the
students- the reasons might be that I didn't pay for the
class or that I don't have as much of an obligation as
they do- I'm not really sure what it is, maybe they wouldn't
have liked me either way. Anyways, I felt better when you
came in to take pictures of me, it sort of validated my
presence in the class- a process that was really happening-
that wasn't separated from our lives and put into the category
of art. I did my best to stay natural, which meant just
sitting there.
Prof. Leist ran through about fifty different photographers,
just to give us some ideas- and to remind us that none
of our ideas will be new. I'm getting comfortable painting
in the studio too- I finished a study that I'm pleased
with. Let me know if you have any other ideas for the photo
project- I signed up to work in the lab this coming Monday,
but I could reschedule it. Talk to you soon. Andrew
Host Reply 2/15/05
Thanks man, great as always. One idea
for the paper for Phil might be that I comment on a draft
by you, adding my own thoughts in italics or something.
I don't know. Sorry if some photo folks are giving you
trouble, I'm sure they don't want to be there and don't
want to reward me/you for getting away with not being there/not
taking it seriously. The joke is that you are taking it
seriously, so no problem I think. Let me know if you need
my camera for anything. The pics I took came out okay,
I had the frickin' camera on Manual though and didn't realize
it, so they're a little fuzzy.
If you want to meet sometime and discuss an article or
something let me know and I'll gladly read it and meet
you somewhere to talk it through. Take care,
Surrogate Philosophy Class Report 02/17/05
If only you
could have seen what happened in the philosophy class today.
Prof. Ross goes through the attendance each class and I've
been raising my hand for Bryan and Andrew. Today he took
notice to that and announced that there was some conceptual
art going on right under our noses. (This came as sort
of a side note to a handout on conceptual art he passed
out as we were walking into class). He asked that I stand
up and explain myself to the class. I said the basics of
the project, the surrogacy and all that- Prof. Ross was
very supportive of your artistic intentions- it was really
nice actually. The reaction from the class was great- I
think I heard “Where do
I sign up?” As I sat
down, a student told me that people were using surrogates
at her undergrad. school in San Francisco four years ago-
I think she just wanted to bring me down a little bit.
Anyway, after class, a girl named Jen approached me wanting
to talk about the project a little bit more. She's a writer/
journalist, so she scribbled down a few notes while I was
talking- She wanted to know if it had gotten any press
yet. She was cool and sincere, a friend of the professor-
so she was just sitting in on the class- I gave her a card
and we said that we'd talk about it some more in the future.
She might even be contacting you. Just thought I'd let
you know. See you soon.
Andrew
Host Email to Professor Ross 2/17/05
Dear Professor Ross,
I received a welcome report from my surrogate regarding
today's Philosophy class, which I've included below. If
Andrew hasn't directed you to the project's website yet,
you can find it at http://www.surrogategraduate.com. One
thing I've discovered about the project is that because
I don't have to physically be in class each week, I've
fallen a bit behind on the readings (but plan to catch
up soon). Andrew's final paper will also reflect the collaboration
to some degree.
I just wanted to share my appreciation at your open mindedness
about our collaboration. The study of Philosophy is very
dear to me, it was my major at Cornell where Alan Wood
served as my advisor, and it influences the work I tend
to pursue. Please let me know if you have any questions
as the project progresses, or if I can help in any way.
Regards,
Response from Professor Ross 2/17/05
It WAS lively, that
is for sure! Why not drop in, or at least in my office
hours, some time? You are something of a shadow celebrity
now. Hope to see you one of these days, and thanks for
those remarks about the class and about philosophy.
Best SR
Surrogate Philosophy Class Report 02/24/05
Today was the
best phil. class so far--finally getting into some more
interesting material like Barthes and Bell. We discussed
the “author-god” which got the class pretty wound
up. Since Prof. Ross sent those handouts on Barthes. we
moved to Bell's anti-retrieval formalist aesthetic theory-
talking about significant form generating aesthetic emotion
and how they are circularly defined by one another.
We went over Wittgenstein's art and “family resemblance” argument-
crisscrossing, overlapping strands of connection--I'd actually
never heard of him before tonight's class.
About the photo class- this coming monday, Feb. 28 we're
going to the offices of The New Yorker- Elisabeth Biondi,
the Visuals Editor is going to give us a lecture/presentation.
That following Monday, March 7 is the class review/ “comparative
student talks”. I like your idea about the Polaroid
too, we'll see how the stone- faced class reacts- or doesn't
react for that matter. If you don't want to show up for
the class review, I'll have some stuff ready- I'm not sure
how much you thought you would have to participate this
quarter--Either way- good seeing you today. I had a feeling
that I might see you there. I attached a photo of the studio-
Jesus at the mailbox is always lit up when I'm working-
I was studying a painting by Kuo Hsi “Early Spring” on
my laptop. Talk to you soon. Andrew
So we went to the office of the New Yorker on Monday and
learned a little bit about the artistic direction from
the visuals editor, Elisabeth Biondi. She briefly went
over the history of the magazine- explaining the New yorker's
relationship with photography- (quality over quantity)-
the photo's are used mainly as a way to draw the reader
into the article. One of the photographers for the magazine,Martin
Schoeller, came in and talked for a little while about
working for the magazine. He was actually pretty cool,
even after working with some of the most important/ powerful
people in the world. (In the March issue, he has a very
confrontational, big head Avadon-esque portrait of Dan
Rather). Ultimately, the lesson learned was that everything
is a business and that money runs the show- It was an interesting
evening though- I remember Martin saying that it was most
difficult to shoot boring looking people or people with
boring lives- made me think about who that might be. Surrogate
Philosophy Class Report 03/03/05 Today we discussed Dickie's
article, “The New Institutional Theory of Art”.
From my understanding, he attempts to differentiate the
ordinary art object from the art object- even if they are
physically the same object (i.e Duchamp's urinal, snow-
shovel). Dickie's main point is that something is art because
it has been accepted/ claimed to be art by some art institution
or “the artworld”- conferral of art status. The
problem seems to be identifying the “artworld”.
This argument seems to run in a circle- that things are
art by nature that their art status has been confirmed-
this institutionalist view has problems with outsider/
primitive art- those people making “artifacts” objects
with no idea of art/ art history. The most glaring problem
in his argument is that the concept of art is understood
with no connection with evaluation- is it art? is it good
art? In Dickie's view, you could arrive at the point where
you have evaluated a work of art as being good art, while
you haven't even answered the question of whether it is
even art or not- Separation between evaluative and conferral
story.
Danto, “The Artworld” Prof. Ross started by
explaining Danto's interest in Hegel. Hegel's main point:
what is x/ what is the history of x? The subject of art
is informed through its historical story. Art was subjected
to an internal causal dynamic/ exploration. Each period
attempts to resolve/ work through the limitations of the
previous period, exploring its own nature in the process.
The history of art is exploring what art can be (defining
its limits and then expanding them). Hegel, as well as
Danto, say that this exploration will come to an end (or
already has)- there is no further historical story to tell-
no new developments because the exploration has reached
complete self- consciousness. Now we will see more examples
(of art), but the historical story has ended.
So Danto and his point on the self- conscious exploration
into art defines the Imitation Theory and the “Real
Thing”- art being real in its own right, not tied
to some memetic relation to the outside world. Danto sees
Pop Art, Warhol's Brillo Box, when the everyday object
was fused with the art object, as being that historical
end-- That's where we ended. Of course the artists in the
class were trying to defend the current progress of art
today. I've always enjoyed Danto's idea- I saw him give
a lecture a few years back in Cincinnati about “Beauty”.
He talked about a Robert Motherwell painting for two hours,
everybody was bored to death.
Anyway, I'll stop by Sunday night to pick up the photo
project- I've been reworking my idea- I was thinking that
if you addressed absence and “were”ness, mine
might address presence and “there”ness- something
like that. Did you get the email from the TA about the
critiques in April? I'm not sure if you would want to apply
for that or not. Anyways, enjoy the weekend, talk to you
soon.
Andrew
Surrogate Class Report 03/15/05
I'm not sure if you're
back from your trip yet- hope it went well. So what I thought
was the midterm last week wasn't, but I got tricked into
showing our stuff anyways. It didn't go very well. The
class thought that we weren't documenting the situation
effectively- they wondered why you decided to frame the
pictures. They didn't really understand what was going
on- it was pretty entertaining. It actually got fairly
ugly- someone said that the photos made him want to puke.
I think they just don't like the idea of the surrogate-one
girl said, “why don't I just have a surrogate come
to class for me” and I just said go for it. It was
funny because all of their hateful comments were just bouncing
right off of me and I think that added fuel to the fire-
that I didn't really care. The only support came from your
one friend and a guest student from Berlin who said it
was “genius” from an outsider's perspective.
They were the only ones that had a sense of humor I guess.
So the real midterm is this coming Monday- I didn't show
the website photos so I'll do that and I'm working on something
else as well. Somebody asked me if I was alright after
the crit was over. Basically they said that the project
won't be able to last for the whole quarter and my response
was that it will simply because I'm going to keep showing
up.
Yesterday for the photo class we did photographer presentations-
I didn't get a whole lot out of it. I did mine on Terry
Richardson and Hiromix. I'm starting to think about the
position that Reiner is and how he feels about the whole
thing since the pass/ fail is up to him. So, we should
thing about how we'll wrap this up eventually or what we
can do from here since I'm going to face the angry mob
again this coming Monday. Hope all is well. Talk to you
soon. Andrew
Surrogate Email 4/06/05
I knew that I'd eventually get
lazy about the emails- sorry about that. It might be because
I've gotten used to going to Hunter so I don't feel like
a surrogate as much as I used to. Our photo class went
to the photography conservation lab at the Met the other
day- it was actually pretty interesting- I was wondering
if you were planning on attending the open studio on Friday-
maybe I could walk around with the surrogate shirt on or
something. Talk to you soon.
Surrogate Photo Class Report 04/11/05
Instead of showing
work today, we had a really interesting discussion about
art, photography, and everything else. I'm beginning to
get self- conscious about what I write in this e-mails
knowing that they will be put on the internet. I say this
because Reiner made reference to my summary of our visit
to the New Yorker office. I just re-read it and I'm not
sure if I understand what he found objectionable. I really
hope that my presence is not disrespectful in anyway towards
Prof. Leist- that's the last thing I would want to happen
considering how much I respect him.
With that of the way, I took some notes during our discussion-
here are some of the topics of discussion: the role of
photography, the justification of the medium- (the justification
of making any art), physiology of perception- trained to
perceive things in a certain way- the purity of photography
as a representation of perception- responding to signals
based on what we bring to the work- cerebral representation-
Reiner talked about the difference between setting out
to make a work of art compared to investigating/ researching
ideas- functions of art- the age of benign pluralism- (rampant
individualism)- the idea of selection and those in positions
of power (in art) galleries, curators, etc., standardization
(in terms of the art community)- critical assessment vs
personal preference- artwork having conceptual depth, technical
capacity, how does the concept and execution come together?-
connoisseurship- monetary value of artwork- selling out-
mass production vs the unique art object- art market- gaining-
information society- do you reflect the culture or does
the culture reflect you?- investigation of ideas- advertising
vs art- the purpose of art school (reasons for going)-
chances of becoming a professional artist- belief in what
you're doing (the case with anything, not just art)
I got a lot out of the discussion- beginning to have a
strange feeling of guilt about this project- I'm not sure
why- Anyways- I did have the shirt on you made which Prof.
Leist said he liked. It was good seeing you on Friday-
Talk to you soon.
Andrew
Host Reply 4/12/05
Hey Andrew,
I think getting self-conscious and self-aware of how your
presence is affecting those around you is an interesting
part of the project. That doesn't mean however that I don't
think your role is a difficult one, I think it is, but
try to hang in there (remember I can always sub in for
you if you need a break). I also couldn't find much objectionable
about your New Yorker summary, (I'm more amazed the Reiner
is reading the summaries), and I wouldn't worry too much
about it. Art as commerce always comes up, especially with
photography, especially given fine art photography constantly
needs to be wrestled away from its mass use in fashion,
advertising, familiar/tourist documentation, porn, commercial
television and film, etc. Even the fine art stuff has problems
in my opinion, as it often seems more appropriate for a
calendar than a differentiated space (see the “nomadic
museum” of Gregory Colbert, or Anne Geddes babies,
especially the ones featuring Celine Dion). Even Salgado,
with his lush shots of third world poverty/enslavement,
seem a common aestheticization of poverty rather than any
real examination of it.
Thanks for wearing the shirt, let me know when you get
a chance to show the “written up” painting or
the other stuff. And let's talk more about the wire tap
and the final, I think I'll try to video tape it or something.
Take care,
|
The Surrogate Graduate Project was developed to achieve a very common desire, to allow an individual to be in two places at once.
Above is the final interview of the surrogate Andrew Wingert about the project.
